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Radio interview
WLS NewsRadio 890's "Stars On Stage" at the Chicago Theatre
Alan Keyes with Jay & Eileen
October 2, 2004

The following was part of a four-hour "Stars On Stage" celebration in the legendary Chicago Theatre, before a packed house of 3,000. The event highlighted the accomplishments of WLS NewTalk 890, with celebrity guests ranging from Rush Limbaugh to Roger Ebert. Jay Marvin and Eileen Byrne, hosts of the morning show Jay & Eileen, interviewed Alan Keyes as one feature of the event. An identical invitation was extended to Keyes' campaign opponent, Barack Obama, who chose not to attend.

EILEEN: It is so wonderful to be with you today. Before we get to Alan Keyes, who I believe is going to be the next Senator of Illinois--

[crowd of 3,000 cheers]

I would just like to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I have worked here at WLS for five and a half years, and it is because of you--you call, you write, you e-mail, you have fan mail and you have hate mail, and I love you for it--you make me a better talk show host. And I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to Jay & Eileen from 9:00 to 11:00 a.m here on Newstalk 890 WLS. It is an honor to be here with you today.

JAY: Thank you all for coming out.

EILEEN: And let's turn it over--the reason why we have Alan Keyes between us is so Jay and I don't attack each other.


ALAN KEYES, ILLINOIS U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: That puts me in an interesting position.

EILEEN: Let's start, once again. Alan, we kind of went crossways at the Republican National Convention, but I just want to say that I support you, and I thank you for joining us here at Newstalk 890 WLS.

Let me start off with this question. The media is making absolutely nothing of Barack Obama's very liberal voting record, including--

  • Giving good behavior time to sex offenders. Good behavior time to sex offenders.

  • Voting against porn filters on school computers in 1999.

  • Twice voted to let school districts--get this one--allow disruptive students back in school before completing their suspension. So, you disrupt the classroom. You get suspended, and then back into the classroom. What message does that send about discipline?

Anyway, the question to you, Alan, is why is the media talking about none of this, and talking about poll numbers, and not addressing these issues?

KEYES: Well, I really don't understand it, because I was listening a minute ago to a panel saying that I spend all my time rousing people about key issues, moral issues, and so forth--and it is true I spend part of my time making that priority clear and talking about a whole range of issue--but I actually started to worry because I spend a good part of each my speeches talking about his record.

For instance, people have made such a big deal about the fact that I come from Maryland. But then you look at this guy's voting record, compared to the common sense of the people of Illinois--one of these things, I call them Obamanations, right?

[laughter, cheers]

One of these Obamanations, in addition to what you just pointed out, this guy voted, Senate Bill 99, he voted to have sex education in kindergarten.

[crowd groans]

JAY: Well, I don't find anything wrong with that at all!

KEYES: Fascinating thought.

Now, the common sense of the people I've encountered suggests that we all ought to send him a letter:

Dear Senator Obama,

I understand you voted for sex education in kindergarten, on the grounds that it would be fine because it would be "age appropriate." I would like to tell you, Senator, that the "age appropriate" sex education in kindergarten is, no education at all.



JAY: But--really? So, ignorance is . . .

KEYES: The great thing about this, though, is that if I'm from Maryland, this guy is from someplace so much further away than Maryland, that he hasn't gotten to Illinois yet--and I doubt he ever will!

[applause, cheering]

You see it in vote, after vote, after vote, whether it's serious, heavy-duty votes--like the one to continue the practice of "live birth" abortions, where fully-born babies are set aside to die like garbage after an abortion procedure. He voted to continue this practice in Illinois' hospitals. Do you think that the media ever reports this? I have talked about it time and again. This is not about abortion . . .

EILEEN: Why don't they, though?

KEYES: This is infanticide.

JAY: Because, because . . .

KEYES: This is a vote so far from the common sense and decency of Illinois, that they won't report it.

EILEEN: I agree.


KEYES: They know people would drop away from him like leaves from the tree in autumn, once they see his lack of conscience. But they won't report it.

EILEEN: But that's the question, though. Why will the media not report any of this? This is important for people to know.

KEYES: You want to know why?

EILEEN: Yeah, please.

KEYES: I'll give you an example of why. I went to an editorial board meeting of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch the other day--I will take their name in vain--and there sat all the editors, reporters. And the managing editor, the editorial page editor is sitting there. The asked me a question about gay marriage and traditional marriage. They asked the question, mind you. And I'm presenting the argument that I make in defense of traditional marriage, and while I'm presenting the argument, they are literally shaking. You could feel the table shake with outrage. They're rolling their eyes, and one of them is making all kinds of ugly faces, and so forth.

Now, these are the people who are supposedly "reporting" on the election, supposedly producing the "unbiased" polls--and they're so full of hatred for every word I speak, that they could barely contain themselves.

And then we ask why it is that the media is a tool in the hands of somebody like Barack Obama? Because a lot of these people who run the place deeply hate every thing that I stand for. Every moral conservative in America comes in for their venom, and we stand up, and they are using their power to cut us down. That's what it's all about. They are as partisan, ideologically, as they could possibly be. And we shouldn't trust a word they say or a thing they do.

[applause, cheering]

EILEEN: All right. Let's throw it over to Jay.

[applause, cheering]

JAY: You know, the poll that appeared a couple of Sundays ago in the Tribune--which indicated that really Barack Obama is not gaining ground, you're losing ground--was conducted by an independent organization with an office in Arlington Heights, and it shows that you don't even have the support of the mainstream of the Republican Party. How do you answer that?

[crowd reacts]

JAY: I mean, before you start off . . .

KEYES: I will answer that.

JAY: And I'll give you a chance. But before you start off with a, like a twenty-minute dialogue on this, let's be fair. The Tribune did not run the poll. They farmed it out. The people who did the poll--who knows whether they have any bias or not. It was just an independent organization. Who would you like to do . . .

KEYES: "Independent organization." The truth of the matter is . . .

EILEEN: Let him answer.

KEYES: The simple answer to polling--I was in a class the other day at, it was Black Hawk Community College about American public opinion, and the basis of my class was polls. I was talking about them. This was just teaching the class. And I asked a question everybody ought to think about: "What possible use do polls serve to voters?"

Polls are there to try to report on the race like it was some horserace, to increase the drama, so that people who are selling newspapers to try to get viewers can hype up the drama. They might serve some purpose for politicians who are trying to psych people out and figure out what lies they have to tell to them.

JAY: So, if you were leading, would you discount the polls if you were leading?

KEYES: I actually did when I was leading. I have never made the mistake of giving any credence to polls whatsoever, not at any point in my career. When I was winning the primary in Maryland, I told them the same thing that I say today. I'm a consistent guy. Do you know why? Because the truth is, polls hurt the integrity of our electoral process.

And when one student . . .

JAY: So, we shouldn't have them?

EILEEN: I like the polls that show Bush ahead, though.

KEYES: No, I don't.

EILEEN: All right.

KEYES: I warn people about those kinds of polls, too.


KEYES: Let me point out that when I asked the question, what poll, what use do they serve, one student finally chimed, "Well, if you see the poll, then you might be influenced to take this issue or that seriously, and go over there where the majority is." And I said, "Well, why do we have a secret ballot?" And they paused for a minute and realized, as I explained to them, we have the secret ballot so that that won't happen, so that you will make your judgments on the basis of issues, conscience, faith, your own beliefs; independent of any perception of where the herd is.


Because that's not democracy, that's mob-ocracy--and the Founders wanted to avoid it.

JAY: So . . .

KEYES: So I have made the proposal over the years that we should ban all publication of polls within 45 days of any federal election. They are useless, except to those who are profiteering--

[continuous cheering, applause]

--and trying to manipulate the process to herd people in the direction they want them to go. And they're destroying the integrity of our elections.

JAY: There was a--yeah, but so what are you there? Are you saying that the poll that the Tribune took in which people in your part answered that they could not support you, are you saying that those polls are absolutely, completely wrong, that we should not have any public discussion of that at all, that the Trib has some axe to grind against you?

KEYES: Oh, the Tribune. Without any doubt, I would say that Tribune has its . . .

It's not grinding its axe against me, it has ground its axe already--it's very nice and sharp--and they've been using it to hack me to pieces. That's what the Tribune's doing.

[laughter, applause]

And they do it with every possible fabrication they can. Can I tell an anecdote about that? Because it's a very interesting one. I will get to it.

EILIEEN: Alan, let me follow up on a question. I know where . . .

JAY: [to Keyes] Yeah. We believe you probably will.

EILEEN: I know where is getting at, that some conservatives may not support you. I want to ask you this question: this past week, we hosted a program, and you might have heard it, with Steven Bennett, who is a reformed homosexual man. He spoke recently at a church in Oak Park, and that was characterized actually as "hate speech." But you recently made some comments about the issue in regards to Mary Cheney as a "selfish hedonist"--hang on--most conservatives would agree, I think, with me that we love the sinner, we hate the sin. Were your remarks about that too harsh?

KEYES: First of all, this is, again, an area of fabrication by the media. I never raised Mary Cheney's name.

EILEEN: No, I know you don't. I am sorry.

KEYES: I never raised it, never brought her up. She was not on my mind.

EILEEN: That's right.

KEYES: They asked me about gay marriage, and I pointed out that you can't take gay sexual relations, which are essentially self-regarding pursuit of pleasure--that is, "selfish hedonism"--and make it the basis of marriage, since, in principle, marriage is focused on procreation, and procreation involves . . .

[cheering, applause]

--selflessness, responsibility, the ability to commit yourself to which is not about . . .

EILEEN: [talking over] Why'd you take the bait, Alan? Why'd you take the bait?

KEYES: . . . to commit yourself to that which is not about your own pleasure or fulfillment.

JAY: Excuse me.

KEYES: Let me finish, please.

[crowd reacts, cheers]

EILEEN: Let him finish.

JAY: Well, when I let you finish, I'll never get a word in edgewise.

EILEEN: Not true.

KEYES: You asked the question . . .

JAY: I didn't ask it.

KEYES: . . . and before I can finish answering the question, you're interrupting.

Then, the media people raised the question, "Well, Mary Cheney who is well-known and has come out and said she's lesbian--does that mean that she is a selfish hedonist?"

And my response was the only possible response of a person with any integrity. Because I had just said, right, that gay sexual relations involve selfish hedonism, if I had said, "Well, no, it doesn't apply to her," or I had acted as if I was running away from the question, then I give the impression that, if you're the Vice President's daughter, if you're a Republican, if you're somebody that I care about, or whatever, then the truth doesn't apply to you, and I am a hypocritical elitist who wants to apply truth to others, but not to my own.


But I'll tell you the truth of it: I am not. The truth is the truth.

I will stand for it in public. I will stand for it in private. I will stand for it because that's where God wants me to stand, and I won't be backed off!

[loud cheering, applause]

And so, at the end of the day . . .

[applause continues]

All I said was . . .

[applause continues]

All I said was is that if she is engaging in such sexual relations, then, by definition, she falls in this category.

And so, it wasn't I. I singled nobody out. I targeted no one. I raised nobody's family--because I don't. It was, once again, the media. The scandal-mongering media. The media that wants profit at the expense of every shred of integrity in American public life, who have been acting according to a conflict of interest. How can they report fair information, when they make money by forcing candidates to buy paid media? When are we going to look at the truth?

EILEEN: All right. Jay wants to follow up. That's what we do. Both sides.

[laughter, applause; cheering builds in anticipation]

JAY: I might get a chance to say something? I'm shocked. In the encounters we've had in the past, I never get to say anything.

Suppose you're married, and you don't have any children?

KEYES: Well, see--this is, again, why I always say . . . Listen. What I said was, marriage in principle involves procreation--meaning to say, if you examine the history of the institution, there is no reason, whatsoever, to regulate the private relations between a man and a woman, except that those relations have the possibility of producing the child. And that possibility requires a social reaction in which society says, we will respect the authority of the parents, we will enforce their responsibilities, we will know whose child belongs to whom, we will have inheritance laws, et cetera.


Because of procreation, there must be a social institution. If it is absent, then it is just a private friendship.

Who here believes the government ought to regulate all our private friendships? Nobody believes it. The reason such regulation is needed in marriage is because procreation implies public responsibility and public response.

That's the only reason for it.


JAY: But is marriage based on solely procreation? Is that what marriage is based solely on?

EILEEN: That's how it started.

KEYES: You cannot . . .

JAY: For instance, my wife is here somewhere. Mary's here somewhere. We've been married for 24 years. I think we epitomize family values. You know, I have a daughter from a previous marriage, but we don't have any children. So are we hedonists?

KEYES: This is about . . . hold it.

JAY: So are we hedonists, Ambassador?

KEYES: Hold it. When you are dealing with a social institution--which marriage is--it doesn't exist for the sake of the parties involved.

JAY: Oh.

KEYES: It exists for the sake of society's responsibilities in response to what they do.

When it exists in that way, all I said was not that it's only about procreation--see, people don't listen--I said that in principle, it is about procreation. That means that you couldn't accept a definition of it that in principle excludes procreation.

And that, unfortunately, is the case if you are telling me that a gay couple that in principle cannot possibly procreate, that this couple somehow can be married. Then you have defined marriage in such a way that procreation is excluded in principle from your definition--and that is unacceptable to our society.

[cheering, applause]

EILEEN: I support you, Alan. And I appreciate that answer.

[cheering, applause]

JAY: (I'm voting for Barack Obama, and I'm proud of it.)

EILEEN: I want to jump to another issue--[to audience:] thank you, guys.

In your upcoming debate with Barack Obama, if elected Senator--and I'm going to be voting for you come November 2nd--we have states like Indiana, we have states like Wisconsin, pulling jobs from Illinois because they woo businesses. And it's happening all over the country, with lower fees and taxes, while business suffers here in Illinois. If elected Senator, what are you going to do about it?

KEYES: Well, first of all, I think we have to be clear: I address all these issues because they are of deep concern to people in the state, but the most important thing to remember is, Barack Obama has been sitting in the state senate of Illinois, and that's the body, along with the other parts of the legislature, that deals with these issues.


KEYES: He has supported the program that hikes the fees, that increases the choking effect of government action on our businesses, and that has produced the most hostile and poisoned anti-business environment in the history of Illinois. In the United States Senate, I won't have the opportunities he has had to vote directly on what the state government does.


KEYES: And he goes around talking "jobs, jobs, jobs," and then every vote, practically, that he has taken kills the businesses that provide the jobs!

This is hypocrisy. This is contradiction. This is misrepresentation. This is deceit.

EILEEN: You gonna vote for this guy? [points to Keyes]

["Yes" from the crowd; cheering, applause]

EILEEN: I'll be voting for you. Thank you. Glad to have you.

JAY: I'll tell you what. I'd love to have the time to continue this, but we're running out of time. Thank you, Ambassador. Barack Obama is going to win, man. It's going to be great. Too bad, Ambassador.

[crowd: "Boo"]

JAY: Boo me all you want! Barack Obama is going to win, and we're going to have a better Illinois!

EILEEN: Alan Keyes!

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